For Ted Sellers, owner of Sellers Roofing Company, that philosophy has guided his business from day one. In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Ted shares how his background in marketing shaped the way he built his company, the lessons he learned through rapid growth, and why creating trust at every stage of the customer journey has become his greatest competitive advantage.

Education Creates Better Customers

Unlike many roofing contractors, Ted didn’t begin his career on a roofing crew. He came from the marketing world, helping roofing companies generate leads before eventually starting his own business. That experience taught him something many contractors still overlook: homeowners want answers before they want a sales pitch.

Instead of relying solely on advertising, Ted focused on creating educational content that explained the roofing process, answered common homeowner questions, and helped people understand what to expect. By the time someone contacted Sellers Roofing, they already had confidence in the company’s expertise, making the sales conversation much easier.

Educational content isn’t just good for SEO. It builds credibility, reduces uncertainty, and helps homeowners feel like they’re working with someone who genuinely wants to help instead of simply making a sale.

Strong Marketing Starts with Trust

Another major source of early success was Ted’s Google Business Profile. He intentionally made it stand out by focusing on reviews, photos, and providing homeowners with the information they needed to feel confident reaching out.

When you combine a strong online reputation with helpful educational content, prospects begin building trust before they’ve ever spoken to your company. That’s exactly what happened for Sellers Roofing, and it’s a strategy that continues to pay off today.

Marketing isn’t just about generating more traffic. It’s about making the decision easier once people find you.

Rapid Growth Comes With New Challenges

Shortly after launching the company, a major storm created more demand than Ted had anticipated. While most contractors dream about having a full pipeline, he quickly discovered that rapid growth brings an entirely different set of problems.

Managing production, supplier payments, customer expectations, and cash flow all became more complicated than simply selling another roof. Looking back, Ted says he probably would have slowed production instead of continuing to pile more work into the schedule before the business was fully prepared to handle it.

It’s a valuable reminder that growth should always be supported by strong systems. More sales don’t automatically create a healthier business if operations can’t keep up.

Cash Flow Is More Than Just Revenue

One lesson Ted emphasized was the importance of understanding how money actually moves through a roofing business. Today, his team intentionally schedules many projects earlier in the month so customer payments better align with supplier payment terms.

He also encourages contractors to build stronger relationships with their suppliers. Simply understanding how payment cycles work can improve cash flow without increasing sales, and those conversations often uncover opportunities that many business owners never think to ask about.

Sometimes improving profitability isn’t about selling more roofs. It’s about managing the business more efficiently.

Surround Yourself With the Right Professionals

When Jim asked Ted what mistake he would never repeat, his answer had nothing to do with marketing or sales. Instead, he pointed to hiring an accountant who didn’t understand construction.

Roofing companies have unique payroll, labor, and workers’ compensation requirements. If financial records aren’t categorized correctly, contractors can find themselves facing costly audits or unexpected tax issues.

Ted believes every roofing contractor should invest in a knowledgeable construction attorney and an accountant who specializes in the industry. Those relationships may not seem exciting, but they can save business owners from expensive problems down the road.

Building Trust Became the Competitive Advantage

One of the most meaningful parts of the conversation centered around trust. As one of Minnesota’s only Black-owned union roofing companies, Ted shared some of the unique challenges he faced early in his career and how those experiences shaped the way he built his business.

Rather than allowing those obstacles to hold him back, he focused on creating as many trust signals as possible. From educational marketing and customer reviews to professionalism throughout the sales process, every decision was designed to help homeowners feel confident choosing Sellers Roofing.

That commitment eventually led the company to become a union roofing contractor, adding yet another layer of credibility that helped them stand apart from competitors.

Why Going Union Changed the Business

Joining the union wasn’t an easy decision. The process required additional standards, training, and accountability, but Ted quickly realized the long-term value.

Beyond improving installer training and safety, becoming a union contractor opened doors to multifamily projects, government work, and larger commercial opportunities that weren’t previously available. It also became another reason homeowners trusted the company, creating a competitive advantage that extended far beyond residential roofing.

Today, Sellers Roofing regularly receives opportunities simply because clients are specifically looking for a union contractor.

Looking Beyond Storm Restoration

Like many companies in Minnesota, Sellers Roofing originally relied heavily on insurance restoration work. Over time, Ted intentionally diversified by expanding into retail roofing, multifamily projects, government contracts, and partnerships with larger general contractors.

Even the company’s website evolved to reflect that shift. Rather than focusing almost entirely on storm restoration, the messaging now speaks to homeowners looking for a trusted roofing contractor regardless of how they’re paying for the project.

That diversification has created greater stability while allowing the company to continue serving insurance customers when opportunities arise.

Success Looks Different Today

Early in his career, success simply meant paying the bills. Today, Ted measures success by the relationships his company has built, the referrals they receive, and the opportunity to help both customers and future roofing professionals succeed.

His story is a reminder that while marketing strategies, operations, and financial systems all matter, trust is what ties everything together. Companies that consistently educate homeowners, deliver on their promises, and invest in long-term relationships will always have an advantage in an increasingly competitive roofing industry.

<p>The post Why Trust Is Your Biggest Competitive Advantage in Roofing with Ted Sellers first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

Jim Ahlin believes that’s only part of the story.

In this solo episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Jim breaks down what the data actually says, why Google has no incentive to kill its advertising business, and how roofing contractors can continue generating profitable leads while preparing for the future of AI search. Instead of chasing every new trend, Jim encourages contractors to focus on understanding how Google really makes money and how that affects the way leads are generated.

Google Isn’t Killing Ads. It’s Moving Them.

One of the biggest misconceptions circulating throughout the roofing industry is that AI is replacing Google Search entirely. While AI is absolutely changing how people find information, Google’s business model hasn’t changed.

Google’s parent company, Alphabet, generated more than $400 billion in revenue, with roughly 73% coming from advertising. Search advertising remains one of the most profitable businesses in the world. That means Google isn’t trying to eliminate ads. It’s finding new places to display them.

As AI becomes integrated into search results, ads are already appearing within AI-generated answers. Google understands that commercial searches, especially those from homeowners looking for a roofing contractor, are incredibly valuable. Rather than removing advertising opportunities, they’re adapting them to fit a better search experience.

As Jim explains:

“Google isn’t a search company that sells ads. It’s an ads company that runs a search engine.”

That perspective changes everything.

Zero-Click Doesn’t Mean Zero Leads

The statistic everyone quotes is that nearly 68% of Google searches now end without a click. While technically true, that number is often presented without context.

Many of those “zero-click” searches happen because users receive the information they need directly inside Google. For roofing companies, that isn’t necessarily bad news.

When someone searches for “roofing company near me,” they often call directly from a Google Business Profile. That phone call counts as a zero-click search even though it generated a qualified lead.

Google Maps, Local Services Ads, reviews, and business listings all allow homeowners to contact contractors without ever visiting a website. Those interactions are still producing revenue for roofing companies every day.

The clicks disappearing are largely informational searches, not the high-intent searches that generate estimates and booked jobs.

AI Search Is Growing, But It’s Not Driving Most Roofing Leads

Jim isn’t dismissing AI search. In fact, he encourages contractors to prepare for it.

However, the numbers show that AI still accounts for only a small percentage of traffic for most local businesses today. Agency research across roofing and HVAC clients suggests that AI currently contributes around 2% of website traffic and lead generation.

That’s important because many contractors are being encouraged to shift significant marketing budgets toward AI optimization before the opportunity truly exists.

Instead, Jim recommends treating AI optimization as an addition to an already strong SEO strategy.

Good SEO creates the foundation that AI systems rely on. High-quality content, authoritative websites, and well-optimized pages benefit both traditional search rankings and AI-generated answers.

The Real Challenge Is Competition

The bigger threat isn’t AI.

It’s competition.

Private equity firms continue investing heavily in roofing companies, increasing advertising budgets across many markets. At the same time, Google is concentrating commercial searches into fewer opportunities, creating more competition for the keywords that actually convert.

That makes campaign efficiency more important than ever.

Rather than simply spending more money, contractors need to ensure every advertising dollar works harder.

Become the General Contractor of Your Marketing

One of Jim’s strongest messages is that roofing owners shouldn’t blindly trust agencies to manage their marketing.

Instead, they should manage marketing the same way they manage roofing crews.

If you hired a subcontractor to install a roof, you wouldn’t disappear until the project was finished. You’d check progress, inspect quality, and verify the work was actually happening.

Marketing deserves the same level of oversight.

Jim encourages every contractor to become the “GC of your marketing.”

The simplest place to start is Google’s Change History.

Inside every Google Ads account is a record showing every adjustment made to campaigns. If nothing has changed in 30 days, that’s a major warning sign.

Good account managers continuously optimize campaigns by adjusting bids, refining keywords, improving ads, and making ongoing improvements based on performance.

If nobody is making changes, nobody is actively managing your investment.

Stop Wasting Budget on Bad Clicks

Another area where roofing companies lose money is poor keyword management.

Google increasingly matches ads to broader search variations than advertisers expect. Without regular cleanup, contractors may pay for searches involving roofing jobs, salaries, DIY projects, roofing supplies, or even competitor names.

Jim recommends regularly reviewing search terms and adding negative keywords to eliminate wasted spend.

Small improvements in keyword quality often produce significant reductions in cost per lead because campaigns become more focused on homeowners actively looking for roofing services.

Instead of buying more traffic, successful contractors buy better traffic.

Landing Pages Matter More Than Ever

Even the best Google Ads campaign can fail if the landing page doesn’t match the search.

Someone searching for metal roofing shouldn’t land on a generic homepage discussing every roofing service imaginable.

Google rewards relevance.

Matching ad copy, keywords, and landing page content improves Quality Score, reduces cost per click, and increases conversions.

Jim shares examples where improving landing page congruency dramatically lowered lead costs without increasing advertising budgets.

The goal isn’t creating hundreds of pages.

It’s creating highly relevant experiences for your highest-value services and locations.

Focus on Metrics That Actually Make Money

Many agencies highlight impressions, clicks, optimization scores, and other technical statistics.

Jim argues those numbers don’t matter unless they lead to revenue.

The metrics roofing owners should actually monitor include:

• Cost per lead
• Conversion rate
• Cost per booked appointment
• Customer acquisition cost
• Return on ad spend

If an agency can’t explain how marketing dollars become booked jobs and revenue, they’re measuring the wrong things.

At the end of the day, roofing companies don’t stay in business because they generated clicks.

They stay in business because they generated profitable customers.

Prepare for AI Without Forgetting What Works

AI will absolutely continue changing search.

Consumers will increasingly ask AI assistants to compare roofing companies, request estimates, summarize reviews, and recommend contractors. Speed, online quoting, customer reviews, and responsiveness will become even more important.

But none of that means traditional Google advertising is disappearing.

The companies that win won’t abandon proven marketing channels.

They’ll continue investing in SEO, Google Ads, Google Business Profiles, and customer experience while gradually adapting to AI-driven search as it becomes a larger source of business.

As Jim reminds listeners, advertising has always followed the customer. Whether it’s Yellow Pages, radio, Google Search, or AI, businesses that understand how advertising evolves will continue finding profitable opportunities.

Instead of chasing headlines, roofing contractors should focus on building marketing systems they understand, monitor, and continuously improve. Those fundamentals will outlast every algorithm update.

<p>The post Why Roofers Are Being Lied To About Zero-Click Search and Google Leads first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Scott Huffman shares the lessons he’s learned while growing his roofing company to nearly $4 million in annual revenue. Along the way, he discusses the costly mistakes he made, the systems that transformed his business, and why reaching his own knowledge ceiling became the catalyst for the company’s next stage of growth. It’s an honest conversation about what it actually takes to build a roofing business that can continue growing long after hustle alone stops working.

Running a Business Is More Than Selling Roofs

One of the biggest misconceptions Scott sees in the roofing industry is that successful salespeople automatically make successful business owners. Selling a roof may feel straightforward: collect a deposit, complete the work, get paid, and move on to the next project.

Once you own the company, however, an entirely different set of responsibilities appears. Suddenly you’re responsible for workers’ compensation, liability insurance, bookkeeping, software subscriptions, legal fees, payroll, taxes, and making sure employees get paid even when cash flow gets tight. Those behind-the-scenes responsibilities are easy to overlook until they’re sitting squarely on your shoulders.

Scott explains that these operational costs aren’t optional. As the company grows, so does the infrastructure required to support it. Owners quickly realize they aren’t simply building roofs anymore. They’re building an organization, and that organization needs systems, financial discipline, and leadership if it’s going to survive long term.

Every Owner Eventually Reaches a Knowledge Ceiling

One of the most refreshing moments in the conversation comes when Scott admits he reached what he called his “intellectual capacity.” He knew how to sell roofing, build relationships, and grow revenue, but he realized he didn’t fully understand the financial side of running a larger company.

Conversations with owners of much bigger businesses exposed gaps in his knowledge, particularly around profit and loss statements, annual budgeting, overhead allocation, and understanding the metrics that drive long-term profitability.

Rather than pretending he had the answers, Scott hired a consulting firm to help him learn. That decision changed the trajectory of his company. Instead of continuing to rely solely on instinct and determination, he began building the knowledge necessary to operate at the next level. It’s a reminder that every roofing company eventually reaches a point where the owner’s personal growth becomes the limiting factor for the business itself.

<p>The post When Hustle Stops Working in Your Roofing Business (And What to Do Next) with Scott Huffman first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

Growing a roofing company isn’t just about generating more leads. It’s about building a business that can operate without every decision, customer question, or emergency landing on the owner’s phone.

When Sej Deribin first joined Capitol Roofing after leaving a successful corporate banking career, the business depended heavily on her husband, Eric. Every phone call, customer question, scheduling issue, and operational challenge seemed to require one of them to step in. Years later, the company looks very different.

In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Sej shares how Capitol Roofing transformed from an owner-dependent business into a company built on systems, communication, and the right people. The journey wasn’t about finding one magic solution. It was about making hundreds of small improvements that compounded over time.

Building the Right Team Takes Longer Than You Think

Many roofing contractors expect hiring to solve their problems overnight. Sej’s experience says otherwise.

Over the past several years, Capitol Roofing cycled through multiple office administrators before finding the right solution. Rather than continuing to struggle with inconsistent attendance and constant turnover, they eventually partnered with a virtual administrative service that specializes in training administrative staff.

That decision became a turning point.

Instead of spending valuable time recruiting, hiring, and retraining office staff, the company gained a dependable front office that consistently answers phones, follows established processes, and provides customers with a professional first impression.

“Being able to pivot quickly was huge. When something wasn’t working, we stopped trying to force it and found a better solution.”

One of the biggest lessons from Sej’s journey is that building the right team isn’t about perfection. It’s about continually improving until you find the people and systems that fit your business.

Great Customer Communication Is the Best Marketing

While many roofing companies focus heavily on advertising, Sej believes communication is one of the strongest marketing tools a contractor can have.

Every customer interaction at Capitol Roofing follows a carefully designed communication process. From the initial phone call through project completion and even years afterward, customers know exactly what’s happening.

Their team sends appointment confirmations, reminder texts, proposal follow-ups, production updates, daily job summaries with photos, warranty information, maintenance reminders, thank-you gifts, and even holiday cookies.

The goal is simple: never let a customer wonder what’s happening.

One company standard drives everything they do.

Every customer receives a response within 24 hours.

That consistency has become one of the company’s biggest competitive advantages and one of the most common themes mentioned in customer reviews.

As Sej explains, communication builds trust long before the roof is installed.

SOPs Should Continue to Evolve

Standard Operating Procedures aren’t documents you create once and forget.

As Capitol Roofing added new employees, Sej noticed something important. Team members performing the work every day often found better ways to complete tasks than the original processes outlined years earlier.

Instead of protecting outdated procedures, the company encouraged employees to improve them.

Today, many of Capitol Roofing’s SOPs have been rewritten by the people actually performing the work every day.

That continuous improvement mindset keeps operations moving forward instead of becoming stagnant.

Buying Back Time Through Strategic Outsourcing

One of the biggest themes throughout the conversation is outsourcing with intention.

Rather than trying to do everything internally, Capitol Roofing outsourced functions where outside experts could deliver better results.

Administrative support.
Marketing.
Website management.
Bookkeeping.

For Sej, outsourcing isn’t about avoiding responsibility. It’s about eliminating tasks that prevent owners from focusing on growth.

She still oversees every major function of the business, but she’s no longer responsible for completing every task herself.

Instead of working inside every process, she’s leading the people responsible for those processes.

That shift has allowed both Sej and Eric to spend more time developing the business rather than constantly reacting to it.

Strong Operations Create Better Customer Experiences

Adding a dedicated bookkeeper and production assistant dramatically changed how the company operated.

Previously, production scheduling, permits, bookkeeping, material orders, customer communication, and financial reporting all landed on Sej’s desk.

Now those responsibilities are distributed across specialized team members.

Production managers stay focused on crews and job sites.

Office staff keep projects organized.

Bookkeeping stays current.

Customers receive consistent communication.

Instead of rushing from one emergency to another, leadership can focus on improving the business.

It’s a reminder that operational improvements don’t just help employees. They directly improve the customer experience.

Networking Beats Expensive Advertising

Although Capitol Roofing maintains an online presence, Sej believes their strongest marketing channel isn’t social media.

It’s relationships.

She invests heavily in networking through organizations like National Women in Roofing, Professional Women in Construction, local chambers of commerce, community events, schools, and neighborhood organizations.

Those relationships consistently generate referrals because people know, trust, and remember Capitol Roofing.

Rather than spending heavily on advertising that may or may not produce quality leads, the company focuses on becoming the first name people think of when someone asks for a roofing recommendation.

For Sej, trust is built person-to-person long before someone needs a new roof.

The Moment Everything Changed

Perhaps the most memorable story from the episode came when Sej described a morning at home.

Years earlier, Eric’s phone would begin ringing before 7:00 every morning with problems requiring immediate attention.

One day, the phone didn’t ring.

Instead of celebrating, Eric wondered if something was wrong.

That’s when they realized something important.

Nothing was wrong.

The systems were working.

The team was handling the business.

Customers were being taken care of.

That quiet morning represented years of hiring, documenting processes, improving communication, and trusting other people to lead.

For Sej, it became proof that the business was finally becoming scalable instead of completely owner-dependent.

Final Thoughts

Scaling a roofing company isn’t about removing yourself from the business overnight. It’s about gradually replacing chaos with systems, replacing uncertainty with communication, and replacing owner dependence with capable people.

Sej’s journey demonstrates that growth rarely comes from one breakthrough moment. It comes from making small improvements every day, documenting what works, finding the right people, and being willing to pivot when something no longer serves the business.

For roofing contractors who feel trapped by constant interruptions, endless phone calls, and daily firefighting, her advice is simple:

Keep going.

Continue improving.

And don’t be afraid to outsource the tasks that prevent you from leading the company you’ve worked so hard to build.

<p>The post From Owner Dependence to Scalable Roofing Business with Sej Sorathia Deribin first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

According to Jon Broce, that’s usually not the real problem.

In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Jon joins Jim Ahlin to discuss one of the biggest challenges facing roofing company owners today: understanding their numbers. From lead-to-set rates and profitability to cost of goods sold and forecasting future performance, Jon explains why data is the foundation of better decisions and sustainable growth.

Why Most Contractors Struggle to Implement Change

Jon spends a significant amount of time working with roofing contractors through coaching, training events, and industry education. One thing he consistently sees is that contractors leave events motivated and inspired, but their businesses often look exactly the same a few weeks or months later.

According to Jon, the problem isn’t a lack of desire.

The issue is implementation.

Many contractors know they need to improve, but they don’t know where to start. They don’t have the tools, systems, or visibility needed to identify the right priorities. That’s one of the reasons Jon and his team developed tools like the Growth Gauge, which helps identify blind spots and build a roadmap for improvement.

Revenue Doesn’t Tell the Whole Story

One of Jon’s strongest messages throughout the conversation is that contractors often focus on the wrong number.

Revenue.

He describes revenue as a vanity metric and argues that profitability provides a much clearer picture of business health. Rather than chasing bigger sales numbers, contractors should understand how much profit they’re actually generating.

Jon uses a simple example:

Would you rather run a $10 million roofing company operating at a 10% profit margin, or a $5 million company operating at a 20% margin?

In both scenarios, the profit is the same.

His point is that many contractors become focused on being the biggest company instead of building a healthier business.

“Revenue is a vanity stat. Let’s look at profit.”

The Five-by-Five Strategy

A major part of Jon’s coaching philosophy is what he calls the Five-by-Five strategy.

Rather than making massive changes all at once, he encourages contractors to focus on improving five key areas by just 5%.

The areas discussed in the episode include:

• Lead-to-set rate
• Appointment-to-close rate
• Cost of goods sold
• Average ticket value
• Bottom-line profit

The idea is simple. Small improvements across multiple areas can create significant results without requiring dramatic changes to the business.

As Jim points out during the discussion, incremental improvements often create larger long-term gains than trying to solve every problem at once.

The Most Overlooked Metric: Lead-to-Set Rate

When Jim asks which metric contractors ignore the most, Jon doesn’t hesitate.

Lead-to-set rate.

Many roofing companies lump leads and appointments together, treating them as the same thing. Jon argues that they’re not.

A company may be generating plenty of leads, but if those leads are not converting into appointments, the business has a process problem, not a lead problem.

This is where tracking becomes critical.

Contractors need to know:

• Which marketing channels are producing leads
• Which channels generate appointments
• Which channels ultimately produce sales

Without that information, it’s impossible to know where marketing dollars should be invested.

Understanding Cost of Goods Sold

Another area Jon sees contractors overlook is cost of goods sold (COGS).

Many roofing business owners immediately think about negotiating lower material prices or pushing crews harder when they hear discussions about reducing costs.

Jon approaches it differently.

He believes many companies can improve profitability by becoming more efficient. One example he shares is placing a supervisor on every job site. While some owners see this as an added expense, Jon found it actually reduced waste and improved material management.

By tracking returns, monitoring leftover materials, and creating accountability, his company reduced unnecessary material usage and improved profitability.

His broader point is that some expenses create a return that outweighs their cost.

Private Equity and the Importance of Data

The conversation also turns to private equity and its growing influence within the roofing industry.

Jon believes one of the biggest advantages private equity-backed companies have is their understanding of numbers.

They know their metrics.

They know their costs.

They know where to invest resources.

For independent roofing contractors, Jon believes understanding financial data is becoming increasingly important. Owners don’t necessarily need accounting degrees, but they do need enough knowledge to understand what the numbers are telling them.

“You can’t make any good decisions unless you’ve got the right data.”

Throughout the episode, Jon repeatedly returns to this idea. Better data leads to better decisions.

Knowing More Than Revenue

Jon encourages roofing contractors to go deeper than simply tracking sales.

Some of the metrics discussed include:

• Installed revenue
• Accounts receivable
• Work in progress (WIP)
• Cash flow timing
• Monthly business trends
• Profitability

Understanding these metrics helps owners forecast future performance and avoid making decisions based solely on current cash balances.

Rather than looking at one strong month and assuming the future will look the same, Jon believes contractors should study historical trends and use that information to make more informed decisions.

Why Historical Data Matters

One of the practical strategies Jon discusses is looking back several years when evaluating company performance.

Instead of focusing only on current results, he recommends analyzing historical revenue patterns to better understand seasonality and predict future performance.

This helps contractors establish realistic expectations for each month and avoid overreacting when revenue fluctuates.

By understanding long-term trends, business owners can make decisions with more confidence and less emotion.

Building Accountability Into the Process

Even when contractors know what needs to be done, implementation remains difficult.

Jon explains that accountability is one of the biggest reasons coaching groups and boardroom-style meetings work.

When owners regularly review numbers with peers and discuss results, they are more likely to follow through on the actions required to improve performance.

That accountability helps turn ideas into action.

And according to Jon, action is what ultimately creates growth.

Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Jon Broce delivers a consistent message: know your numbers.

Whether you’re evaluating marketing performance, hiring decisions, profitability, or growth opportunities, the quality of your decisions depends on the quality of your data.

Many roofing contractors spend years chasing more leads, more revenue, and faster growth. Jon argues that the better approach is understanding the business you already have, identifying the right metrics, and making steady improvements over time.

For roofing companies looking to grow intelligently, it starts with the numbers.

<p>The post The 5 Numbers Every Roofing Contractor Must Track with Jon Broce first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

More Google Ads. More direct mail. More lead services. More door knocking.

But what if the better answer isn’t spending more money at all?

In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Jim Ahlin sits down with Nicholas Riley, owner of Driftwood Builders Roofing in Austin, Texas, to discuss why networking, referral partnerships, and long-term relationship building may be some of the most overlooked growth strategies in roofing today. Nick brings a unique perspective to the industry after spending nearly a decade consulting for Fortune 100 companies through KPMG and Deloitte before purchasing an established roofing company through acquisition.

His journey from corporate consulting to roofing ownership offers valuable lessons for contractors looking to create sustainable growth, improve decision-making, and build a business that isn’t entirely dependent on marketing spend.

From Corporate Consulting to Roofing Ownership

Nick’s path into roofing wasn’t traditional.

Growing up in Montana, he was surrounded by home service businesses. His father owned a landscape construction company, his uncle owned a masonry business, and the family regularly built homes. Like many kids growing up in a family business, he spent his summers working on job sites and learning the value of hard work.

At the same time, those experiences motivated him to pursue higher education and a corporate career. After graduating from the University of Montana with high honors, Nick became a CPA and spent nine years working with KPMG and Deloitte, consulting for major organizations including Meta, Google, and Tesla.

While the work was intellectually challenging, he eventually found himself missing something.

“I really started to miss home services and helping everyday people,” he explained during the conversation.

That realization led him to entrepreneurship through acquisition, a strategy where entrepreneurs buy existing businesses instead of starting from scratch. After evaluating roughly 2,000 businesses over several years, Nick ultimately purchased Driftwood Builders Roofing in Austin, Texas.

One lesson stood out throughout that process: trust matters more than spreadsheets.

While financial analysis was important, Nick believed the character and integrity of the seller revealed far more about the health of the business. If a seller was honest, transparent, and treated people well during negotiations, that often reflected how they treated customers, employees, and referral partners as well.

Applying Big Business Thinking to a Small Business

One of the biggest advantages Nick brought from the consulting world was a structured approach to problem-solving.

Consultants spend much of their time creating hypotheses, testing assumptions, and using data to determine what actually works. Rather than relying on opinions, they rely on experimentation.

When Nick purchased Driftwood Builders Roofing, his first challenge was one every roofing contractor understands: generating more leads.

Instead of betting everything on a single marketing channel, he began testing multiple ideas simultaneously and measuring the results against a benchmark. In Driftwood’s case, postcards had historically delivered strong returns, so every new idea had to outperform what was already working.

This framework can apply to almost any roofing business decision:

• Testing marketing messages
• Evaluating referral partnerships
• Comparing vendors
• Introducing new services
• Improving internal processes

Rather than asking, “Do I think this will work?” Nick focuses on asking, “How can I test whether this works?”

That subtle shift can prevent expensive mistakes and lead to better decisions over time.

Let Your Customers Tell You What to Build

Many roofing companies decide what services to offer based on assumptions.

Nick recommends listening to customers instead.

When he first purchased the company, he believed commercial roofing might be the next logical growth opportunity. However, as he spoke with homeowners, he noticed a different pattern. Customers repeatedly asked whether Driftwood offered siding services. After hearing the same request over and over again, he decided to follow the market’s demand rather than his own assumptions.

That experience reinforced a lesson many contractors overlook: customers often tell you exactly where your next opportunity is.

Nick regularly follows up with customers after projects and asks for feedback. Those conversations provide insights that many business owners never uncover because they simply don’t ask the questions.

For roofing contractors looking for new revenue streams, operational improvements, or ways to improve customer satisfaction, the answers may already exist within their customer base.

Why Networking Creates Better Long-Term Growth

The central theme of the episode was Nick’s belief that networking can outperform traditional marketing.

While marketing certainly has value, he believes many roofing companies are overlooking one of the most powerful lead generation tools available: referral relationships.

Instead of focusing exclusively on homeowners, Nick spends significant time building relationships with realtors, insurance agents, property managers, and other local professionals. These individuals are constantly interacting with homeowners who may need roofing services.

A single strong referral relationship can generate opportunities for years.

As Nick pointed out, an insurance agent who sends five roofing referrals every year may ultimately produce far more value than thousands of dollars spent on short-term advertising campaigns.

He also sees a competitive advantage in this strategy.

Private equity firms are aggressively acquiring roofing companies across the country, but large organizations often struggle to replicate genuine community involvement and personal relationships. Nick believes smaller, locally focused contractors can win by becoming deeply connected within their communities.

Start With Generosity, Not Sales

One of the most interesting parts of the conversation was how Nick approaches networking.

Many contractors walk into a realtor’s office or insurance agency asking for referrals. Nick learned that approach rarely works.

Instead, he starts by asking how he can help.

His company sponsors local events, supports community activities, and looks for opportunities to contribute before expecting anything in return. Rather than approaching relationships transactionally, he focuses on becoming a valuable resource within the local business ecosystem.

That strategy doesn’t always produce immediate results.

Some sponsorships generate little return. Some relationships never develop. Some people simply aren’t interested.

However, Nick views these opportunities as what he calls “asymmetric bets.” A small investment may not always work, but when it does, the return can be substantial.

He shared an example where a $500 sponsorship ultimately led to a referral relationship that generated a roofing project worth approximately $30,000 in profit.

The lesson isn’t that every sponsorship will work.

The lesson is that building relationships creates opportunities that advertising alone often cannot.

Networking Must Be Scheduled

Another important takeaway is that networking isn’t something Nick does when he has spare time.

It’s built directly into his schedule.

Every week, he blocks dedicated time for relationship-building activities. That includes making phone calls, following up with referral partners, sending emails, and checking in with key contacts. He uses CRM tools and systems to help manage these relationships and ensure people don’t fall through the cracks.

The goal isn’t to ask for business every time.

The goal is simply to stay top-of-mind.

When an insurance agent receives a call about storm damage or a realtor encounters a home that needs a roof replacement, Nick wants Driftwood Builders Roofing to be one of the first companies they think about.

Consistency is what turns networking into a growth strategy rather than a random activity.

Using AI to Scale Relationship Building

Despite his emphasis on personal relationships, Nick is also enthusiastic about using AI tools to improve efficiency.

His team uses technology to identify local professionals, automate initial outreach, and organize follow-up communication. AI helps create more opportunities to start conversations, but it doesn’t replace the relationship itself.

The actual trust-building still happens person-to-person.

This balance between technology and human connection is becoming increasingly important as AI continues to reshape the business landscape.

The companies that thrive will likely be the ones that use technology to become more efficient while continuing to strengthen genuine human relationships.

Education Creates Trust

Another area where Driftwood Builders Roofing stands out is education.

Before purchasing the company, Nick analyzed customer reviews and discovered a recurring theme.

Homeowners consistently praised the company’s willingness to educate them throughout the roofing process. Even when Driftwood wasn’t the lowest-priced option, customers appreciated the extra time spent explaining solutions and helping them make informed decisions.

That insight has become a core part of the company’s strategy.

Nick is investing in educational content through YouTube and other channels to answer common homeowner questions and build trust before appointments even occur. The content serves multiple purposes: it improves online visibility, supports the sales process, and positions the company as a trusted expert.

Rather than relying solely on sales tactics, Driftwood focuses on helping homeowners understand their options.

That trust often leads to stronger close rates and better customer relationships.

The Long-Term Advantage Most Roofers Ignore

Perhaps the biggest lesson from this conversation is the value of long-term thinking.

Many roofing companies focus heavily on immediate revenue. They prioritize the largest jobs, the fastest wins, and the quickest return on investment.

Nick encourages contractors to think differently.

A repair today may become a replacement tomorrow. A satisfied customer may refer multiple neighbors. A realtor relationship may generate business for the next decade. A small sponsorship may create opportunities that can’t be predicted today.

When viewed through a long-term lens, many decisions look very different.

The most successful roofing companies aren’t always the ones spending the most money on marketing. Often, they’re the ones investing consistently in relationships, trust, education, and community involvement.

For roofing contractors looking to create sustainable growth, Nick’s message is simple: focus on relationships first.

Because in the long run, networking may be one of the best marketing strategies you’ll ever implement.

<p>The post Why Networking Beats Marketing for Roofing Companies with Nicholas Riley first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Jim Ahlin sits down with Kody Landals, founder of Reimagine Roofing and Reimagine Your Sales, to discuss the lessons he learned while building, scaling, and eventually exiting his roofing company. From overcoming near-disaster moments to pioneering virtual roofing sales, Kody shares practical insights that every roofing contractor can apply today.

From Solar Sales to Roofing Innovation

Kody’s journey into roofing wasn’t planned.

After serving in the Marine Corps and earning a degree focused on renewable energy, he built successful solar sales teams generating more than $100 million in annual sales. However, he continually encountered the same challenge: finding reliable roofing partners capable of supporting solar projects across multiple states.

One experience became the breaking point. A roofing contractor demanded full payment midway through a project before finishing the work. That moment convinced Kody there had to be a better way.

Rather than complain about the problem, he decided to solve it.

What started as a mission to create a more efficient roofing partner for solar companies evolved into an entirely new business model.

“A lot of times it’s plugging a couple of holes, getting better visibility on your numbers, and making some tweaks that can have outsized impacts on the business.”

Creating a Faster Roofing Sales Process

One of Kody’s biggest breakthroughs came from recognizing that speed matters.

In solar sales, waiting days or weeks for a roofing quote often killed deals. Homeowners who were ready to move forward lost momentum during the delay.

To solve this problem, Kody built a system capable of delivering roofing quotes in under 15 minutes. Using virtual assistants, satellite imagery, and a streamlined pricing model, his team could provide pricing almost instantly.

The result was a major competitive advantage.

While many roofing companies were taking days to respond, Reimagine Roofing became known for speed and simplicity.

This lesson still applies today. The companies that respond fastest and remove friction from the buying process often win more business.

Why Virtual Roofing Sales Work

Perhaps the most controversial aspect of Kody’s business was his virtual sales model.

At a time when most roofing companies relied heavily on in-home presentations, Kody believed homeowners increasingly preferred convenience over lengthy sales appointments.

His reasoning was simple.

Consumers buy shoes, cars, electronics, and countless other products online without needing face-to-face interactions. Roofing, he argued, is no different.

By leveraging technology, educational videos, and phone-based consultations, his team maintained strong close rates while dramatically increasing efficiency.

One sales representative could handle 10 to 12 appointments per day instead of the traditional three or four.

The results were difficult to ignore.

Reimagine Roofing maintained an average close rate of approximately 34% while operating with significantly lower overhead and greater scalability.

For roofing contractors, the takeaway is clear: homeowners are increasingly comfortable buying with less friction. Companies that adapt to changing consumer behavior may gain a significant advantage.

The Secret to Predictable Revenue

One of the biggest challenges in roofing is the lack of recurring revenue.

Most contractors live project to project, lead to lead, and month to month.

Kody believes the solution starts with understanding your numbers.

He frequently references a quote from marketing expert Dean Jackson:

“Good marketing turns your business into a vending machine instead of a slot machine.”

Many roofing companies treat marketing like a slot machine. They spend money hoping for results without truly understanding what’s working.

Instead, Kody encourages contractors to focus on a few critical metrics:

• Customer acquisition cost (CAC)
• Gross profit per job
• Appointment set rates
• Demo rates
• Close rates
• Lifetime value to customer acquisition cost (LTV:CAC)

When you understand these numbers, marketing becomes predictable rather than emotional.

Rather than guessing, you can confidently invest in the channels producing profitable results.

Financial Discipline Creates Freedom

One of the most valuable parts of the conversation centered on financial management.

Kody believes many roofing contractors don’t truly know whether their businesses are profitable.

The reason?

They’re not reviewing accurate financial statements regularly.

According to Kody, every roofing owner should review their profit and loss statement monthly and understand the difference between cash accounting and accrual accounting.

Accrual accounting provides a clearer picture of actual business performance because it recognizes revenue and expenses when work is completed rather than when money changes hands.

This becomes especially important when preparing for growth, securing financing, or pursuing an exit.

When private equity eventually acquired Reimagine Roofing, Kody’s organized financials helped accelerate the process.

When buyers requested documents, he already had them prepared.

That level of discipline built trust and increased confidence in the business.

Why Most Roofing Companies Need Higher Margins

One of Kody’s strongest messages involved pricing.

Many roofing contractors are afraid to raise prices because they worry about losing deals.

Kody believes that fear is often misplaced.

In his experience, homeowners are not simply buying a roof. They’re buying confidence, trust, and peace of mind.

If your company delivers a superior experience, stronger communication, better warranties, and greater professionalism, many homeowners are willing to pay more.

He recommends regularly evaluating pricing and looking for opportunities to increase value alongside price increases.

Even small improvements in pricing can create massive impacts on profitability.

For a $5 million roofing company, improving gross margin by just a few percentage points can add hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit annually.

Building Accountability Without Drama

As companies grow, accountability becomes increasingly important.

Kody encourages roofing owners to create clearly defined roles, responsibilities, and measurable expectations.

Too often, leaders manage based on emotions rather than objective performance.

Instead of asking whether someone is working hard, ask whether they are achieving clearly defined outcomes.

Successful organizations establish measurable expectations and predetermined consequences.

This removes ambiguity and makes difficult conversations far easier.

When everyone understands what success looks like, accountability becomes less personal and more professional.

Build a Business You Actually Enjoy

The most important lesson from this episode may be the simplest.

Too many roofing owners build businesses that create stress rather than freedom.

They focus on surviving instead of thriving.

Kody challenges contractors to think bigger.

Profit isn’t just about making money. Profit allows you to reward employees, invest in growth, create better customer experiences, and build a company culture people want to be part of.

As he puts it, the goal shouldn’t be to build a business that merely pays the bills.

The goal is to build a business that you genuinely love running.

When your systems, financials, pricing, accountability, and leadership all work together, that’s when a roofing company becomes something truly valuable—not just to buyers, but to the owner who built it.

<p>The post Build A Roofing Business That You Love with Kody Landals first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

The owner becomes the bottleneck. Every major decision requires approval. Employees constantly ask questions. Processes live inside people’s heads instead of being documented. What started as a successful roofing company slowly becomes a business that can’t function without the owner involved in every detail.

In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Jim Ahlin sits down with Chance Peare, COO of SkyRight Roofing & Gutters and founder of Framework OPS, to discuss what it really takes to scale a roofing company without losing control. Drawing from firsthand experience helping SkyRight navigate rapid growth, new divisions, operational challenges, and organizational changes, Chance shares practical lessons that every roofing contractor can apply.

Why Most Roofing Companies Hit a Growth Ceiling

Growth sounds exciting until it arrives.

Many roofing contractors spend years focused on generating more leads, closing more sales, and increasing revenue. Then they hit a point where growth creates more problems than opportunities. Communication becomes harder. Customer issues increase. Employees become frustrated. Owners find themselves working longer hours than ever before.

Chance experienced this firsthand as SkyRight expanded. What began as a smaller, owner-led operation evolved into a much larger organization with multiple departments, additional services, and new revenue streams. The challenge wasn’t finding work. The challenge was building an organization capable of handling that work consistently.

One of the biggest mistakes roofing companies make is assuming growth alone will solve their problems. In reality, growth magnifies weaknesses. If communication is weak at $2 million, it becomes painful at $10 million. If accountability is unclear with five employees, it becomes a major problem with twenty.

The businesses that successfully scale are not necessarily the best sales organizations. They’re often the companies that build operational infrastructure before they desperately need it.

Creating Clarity Through Roles and Accountability

One of the first major improvements SkyRight implemented was creating clear accountability throughout the organization.

Like many growing roofing companies, responsibilities had become blurred. Certain employees handled tasks simply because they had always handled them. New hires were brought into roles without fully understanding where their responsibilities started and ended. Important work was being completed, but often inefficiently.

As Chance explained, one of the biggest breakthroughs came from formally defining roles and responsibilities. Rather than relying on assumptions, the company began documenting ownership for specific tasks and creating clearer organizational structures.

This became especially important as they added new positions. What was once handled by a single project manager eventually evolved into multiple specialized roles responsible for scheduling, production management, field supervision, customer communication, and crew oversight.

When everyone understands exactly what they own, accountability improves dramatically. Employees know what’s expected of them. Managers know who is responsible for outcomes. Leadership gains visibility into bottlenecks before they become major issues.

For roofing owners looking to scale, this may be one of the most important lessons from the episode. If responsibilities only exist inside the owner’s head, growth will eventually stall.

Why Systems Fail Without Buy-In

Creating processes is relatively easy. Getting people to follow them is where the real challenge begins.

Every roofing company eventually introduces systems such as photo documentation requirements, checklists, quality control procedures, job completion forms, and customer communication standards. The problem is that employees don’t always love additional steps.

Salespeople may view documentation requirements as friction that slows down their sales process. Production teams may see paperwork as unnecessary. Field crews often want to focus on completing work rather than filling out forms.

Chance shared that SkyRight faced many of these same challenges.

The solution wasn’t complicated, but it required consistency. Documentation became part of the job, not an optional task. Whether it was photo reports, job forms, or production paperwork, employees understood that completing those responsibilities was directly connected to compensation and performance.

This created accountability while reinforcing an important cultural principle: systems only work when everyone participates.

The lesson for roofing contractors is clear. If your systems are optional, they aren’t really systems. They’re suggestions.

The Challenge of Training During Rapid Growth

One of the most overlooked challenges in scaling a roofing company is onboarding.

When growth accelerates, experienced team members are usually already operating at full capacity. They’re managing jobs, solving customer issues, handling production, and keeping the business moving forward. Adding training responsibilities to already overloaded employees often creates frustration on both sides.

Chance admitted that SkyRight learned this lesson the hard way.

As new positions were created and the company expanded, they realized that many job descriptions lacked clarity. Employees often entered roles without complete documentation or structured training. Over time, this created confusion and inconsistent execution.

The solution was investing more effort into documentation, onboarding systems, and role clarity.

Growing companies often underestimate the value of creating repeatable training processes. However, the ability to consistently onboard new employees becomes one of the biggest competitive advantages a roofing company can develop.

If every new hire requires constant supervision from leadership, growth becomes extremely difficult. If new employees can quickly understand expectations, workflows, and responsibilities, the organization becomes far more scalable.

Expanding Revenue Without Creating Chaos

Eventually, SkyRight reached a crossroads familiar to many roofing contractors.

The company needed additional growth opportunities. The leadership team evaluated several options, including geographic expansion, increased marketing investment, and diversification into new revenue streams.

After analyzing the options, they chose to pursue commercial and new construction work.

What followed was a period of rapid learning.

In addition to entering new markets, the company invested in a commercial property, expanded its metal capabilities, brought manufacturing elements in-house, and developed additional production infrastructure. While the opportunities were significant, the expansion also introduced new operational challenges.

One particularly interesting takeaway from the conversation was how accessible commercial opportunities can be for roofing contractors.

Many companies assume commercial roofing requires elaborate networking or years of relationship building. While relationships certainly matter, Chance explained that much of the initial opportunity simply comes from getting on bid lists, connecting with contractors, and consistently submitting proposals.

The hard part isn’t getting opportunities.

The hard part is building the operational systems necessary to execute those opportunities successfully.

Knowing Your Numbers Before You Scale

Throughout the episode, one theme surfaced repeatedly: successful growth requires financial visibility.

Many roofing contractors manage their businesses based primarily on cash balances. If money is in the account, everything feels fine. If cash gets tight, concerns emerge.

Chance believes that approach creates significant risk.

Instead, roofing contractors need a deeper understanding of their numbers. Revenue alone doesn’t tell the story. Leaders must understand gross margins, labor costs, material costs, overhead expenses, job profitability, and cash flow trends.

One area where many companies struggle is job costing.

It’s easy to assume estimated margins match actual margins. However, without comparing estimates against real-world performance, contractors often miss costly trends. Material increases, labor inefficiencies, waste, and production issues can quietly erode profitability over time.

Even a few percentage points of margin loss can have a significant impact on annual profitability.

The companies that scale most effectively are typically the ones that understand their numbers well enough to make proactive decisions instead of reactive ones.

Forecasting Growth Instead of Hoping for It

Many contractors set annual goals based on ambition.

Chance recommends a more structured approach.

Rather than simply declaring a revenue target, leaders should start by defining what success actually looks like. How much profit does the owner want to generate? How involved does the owner want to be in daily operations? What level of growth is realistic based on current capacity?

Once those answers are established, companies can work backward.

Forecasting allows leadership teams to identify hiring needs, capacity constraints, infrastructure requirements, and operational challenges before they become problems. It transforms growth from a hope into a plan.

One of the most valuable insights from the conversation was the importance of capacity planning.

Adding revenue isn’t always as simple as selling more work. Additional revenue often requires additional office staff, project management resources, vehicles, equipment, and administrative support. Understanding when those investments become necessary helps companies avoid the growing pains that derail many expansion efforts.

The goal isn’t simply to grow bigger.

The goal is to grow profitably and sustainably.

The Relationship Between Visionaries and Operators

Every successful roofing company needs both vision and execution.

Visionaries create opportunities. They see possibilities, identify growth opportunities, and challenge the organization to think bigger. Operators take those ideas and transform them into processes, systems, and measurable outcomes.

Throughout the discussion, Chance described the balance between his operational role and the owner’s vision.

Not every idea becomes a priority. Not every opportunity gets pursued immediately. Successful growth requires discipline, focus, and a willingness to stay committed to the plan.

One of the biggest responsibilities of an operator is helping determine which ideas support the company’s vision and which ideas create unnecessary distractions.

This balance allows companies to innovate without constantly changing direction.

The strongest organizations aren’t built solely on vision or solely on systems. They’re built on the combination of both.

Building a Business That Doesn’t Depend on You

At its core, this episode wasn’t really about roofing.

It was about leadership.

The roofing companies that successfully scale aren’t the ones with the biggest markets, the most employees, or even the best products. They’re the companies that intentionally build systems, develop people, create accountability, and establish operational discipline.

Owners often start businesses because they want freedom. Ironically, many create companies that cannot function without them.

Chance’s journey at SkyRight demonstrates a different path.

By defining roles, documenting processes, forecasting growth, tracking financial performance, and building a strong team, roofing contractors can create organizations that continue growing without requiring the owner to solve every problem personally.

The ultimate goal of scaling isn’t simply generating more revenue.

It’s building a business that can succeed even when the owner isn’t in the room.

<p>The post How to Scale a Roofing Company Without Losing Control with Chance Peare first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

What actually makes a roofing company successful over the long haul?

According to Jon Abernathy, it is not about building the biggest sales team or chasing the fastest growth. The companies that survive and scale are the ones that focus on culture, systems, customer experience, and operational discipline.

Jon has spent more than 25 years in the roofing industry, starting in framing and construction before building Abernathy Roofing into one of the strongest roofing brands in his market. Along the way, he learned plenty of lessons the hard way, what he calls “paying the dumb tax.” Today, he helps contractors avoid those same mistakes through coaching and his work with TAMKO’s Contractor Edge program and the Roofing Strong Alliance.

This episode is packed with practical advice for roofing contractors who want to build a business that can grow without sacrificing quality or culture.

Culture Always Beats Talent

One of the biggest themes throughout the conversation was hiring.

Jon made it clear that many roofing companies make the mistake of hiring based purely on production numbers. A salesperson may bring in millions in revenue, but if they damage the culture, create internal tension, or fail to align with the company’s values, the long-term cost is enormous.

“It’s not about quantity. It’s more about quality.”

Early in his growth journey, Jon filled rooms with salespeople thinking more bodies would equal more revenue. Once he started tracking performance data closely, he realized only a small percentage of the team was producing most of the results.

That realization completely changed how he approached hiring.

Instead of chasing aggressive sales personalities focused only on money, Jon looked for people who cared about family, community, relationships, and long-term growth. He wanted people who aligned with the company mission, not just the compensation plan.

He also emphasized being “slow to hire and fast to fire.” Holding onto toxic employees for too long can quietly destroy morale, communication, and customer experience across the entire organization.

One lesson stood out clearly: culture problems rarely stay isolated.

When Jon finally removed one high-producing but toxic salesperson from the company, the rest of the team stepped up and actually outperformed expectations.

For roofing contractors, that is an important reminder that protecting culture is not soft leadership. It is operational leadership.

The Roofing Companies Winning Today Are Better at Customer Experience

Jon believes the roofing industry has changed dramatically over the past decade.

Years ago, especially in storm markets, homeowners often cared very little about the roofing process because insurance covered most of the cost. Today, deductibles are significantly higher, homeowners are paying more out of pocket, and customers are paying closer attention to every interaction.

That means roofing companies must shift from transactional sales to consultative sales.

The contractors winning today are the ones educating homeowners, communicating consistently, and delivering a professional experience from the first phone call to the final walkthrough.

Jon repeatedly emphasized that communication is one of the biggest gaps in roofing operations.

Through homeowner surveys and customer feedback data, he found that poor communication was one of the top reasons homeowners left negative reviews or refused to recommend a company.

Interestingly, homeowners often could not judge roofing quality itself. They assumed the roof was installed correctly. What they noticed immediately was professionalism, responsiveness, cleanliness, and communication.

That means customer experience is not optional anymore. It is one of the strongest drivers of referrals, reviews, and repeat business.

Why Project Managers Became the Key to Scaling

One of the most valuable parts of the conversation focused on project management.

Like many roofing companies, Jon originally used a cradle-to-grave sales model where sales reps handled everything from selling the job to managing production.

Eventually, he realized that salespeople make poor project managers.

Sales reps want to sell. They do not want to sit on job sites overseeing quality control and customer communication.

That led Jon to build a dedicated project management system focused entirely on production quality and customer experience.

The results were massive.

Project managers followed detailed job checklists, documented every project with extensive photos, performed attic inspections, handled homeowner communication, and focused heavily on installation quality.

Jon explained how one major storm season forced him to hire crews too quickly without enough oversight. A few years later, he ended up writing hundreds of thousands of dollars in checks fixing roofing issues caused by poor production quality.

That painful lesson completely changed the company’s operational systems.

Today, project managers are one of the most important parts of the business.

“I think the project managers sell as many roofs as the sales guys.”

When installations run smoothly and homeowners feel cared for, referrals happen naturally. Neighbors notice. Reviews improve. Sales become easier.

Small Operational Leaks Quietly Destroy Profitability

Another major takeaway from the episode was how much profit roofing companies lose through operational inefficiencies.

Jon shared a simple but powerful example involving roofing crews wasting shingles during installation. Once he noticed how much material was being thrown away unnecessarily, the company redesigned its compensation and efficiency systems.

That single operational improvement saved hundreds of thousands of dollars annually.

The broader lesson is that many roofing businesses focus too heavily on generating more leads while ignoring operational waste inside the company.

Jon believes many contractors do not actually need more marketing.

They need better systems.

“You don’t need to spend more on marketing. You need to get better on your internal process.”

He specifically highlighted speed to lead, communication workflows, customer follow-up, and data tracking as areas where roofing companies lose enormous amounts of revenue.

Without systems, those leaks compound over time.

Data Is What Allows Roofing Companies to Scale

Throughout the episode, Jon repeatedly returned to one central idea: data drives growth.

Every department inside the business tracked measurable KPIs, from customer experience to operational efficiency to profitability.

The goal was not simply collecting data for reports. The goal was creating actionable insights that improved performance.

Jon stressed that roofing companies cannot scale successfully if they rely only on intuition or occasional reactions.

Instead, they need systems that proactively identify problems before they damage the customer experience or profitability.

That mindset also extended to compensation.

The company implemented profit-sharing programs that aligned incentives across departments. Everyone in the organization understood how operational efficiency, customer satisfaction, and profitability impacted the business.

As a result, employees became more engaged, collaborative, and focused on continuous improvement.

Building a Roofing Brand Takes Years of Consistency

Jon also discussed how strong roofing brands are built.

Branding is not just logos or advertising campaigns. Real roofing brands are built through years of consistent customer experience, community involvement, quality work, and reputation.

Abernathy Roofing became known locally because they stayed involved in the community, supported local causes, volunteered regularly, and treated customers well.

That consistency created trust.

And trust makes sales easier.

When homeowners already recognize your brand positively, the sales process becomes far more consultative and far less combative.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in sustainable roofing company growth.

Jon Abernathy’s approach is not built around flashy tactics or overnight success. It is built around culture, systems, communication, operational discipline, and long-term thinking.

For roofing contractors trying to scale, the message is clear: The companies that win long term are not always the loudest or the fastest growing. They are the ones that consistently deliver a great experience, protect their culture, measure the right data, and improve their systems year after year.

That is what creates a roofing company people want to work for and homeowners want to recommend.

<p>The post The Hiring Mistake That Destroys Roofing Companies with Jon Abernathy first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>

In this episode of the Roofing Success Podcast, Mike shares how Apex Roofing grew from a one-man operation working out of a kitchen table into a respected Texas roofing company with more than 500 Google reviews and a reputation built on customer care, communication, and relationships.

What makes Mike’s approach interesting is that he did not come from construction. He came from the automotive industry, where he learned sales, follow-up, and how to manage customer expectations. Those skills became the foundation for Apex Roofing’s growth strategy.

Starting Without Construction Experience

Mike entered roofing through the storm restoration world, traveling from storm to storm with a roofing company to learn the business. At the time, he admits he knew almost nothing about roofing materials or construction.

What he did understand was marketing and sales.

Instead of focusing on technical roofing knowledge first, Mike focused on relationships, communication, and customer trust. That mindset helped him quickly close deals and eventually launch Apex Roofing in Georgetown, Texas.

“A roof is just a commodity as would be a car. What I did know about was marketing and sales.”

That perspective shaped how Apex would operate from the very beginning.

Why Apex Chose Local Relationships Over Storm Chasing

One of the biggest decisions Mike made early on was avoiding the traditional storm-chasing business model.

Rather than traveling constantly, he wanted to build a company rooted in a local market with long-term customer relationships.

That decision changed everything.

Instead of relying solely on storm volume, Apex focused on becoming known in their communities through relationships with:

• Property managers
• Realtors
• Insurance agents
• Homeowners
• Local businesses

Mike believed that exceptional customer service would eventually create repeat business and referrals that storm chasers could not sustain.

That philosophy also pushed the company toward stronger branding, better communication systems, and a long-term reputation strategy.

Building a Roofing Company Through Relationships

One of the biggest themes throughout the conversation was loyalty.

Mike believes many roofing contractors underestimate the value of long-term relationships with suppliers, manufacturers, referral partners, and customers.

Rather than constantly shopping for the lowest material price, Apex focused on building strong vendor partnerships. That consistency helped them earn better support, faster service, and stronger trust over time.

The same approach applied to referral relationships.

When Apex worked with real estate agents or property managers, the goal was never simply completing one project. The goal was becoming the company those professionals trusted repeatedly.

Mike explained that the key is helping people solve problems quickly and reliably.

For example:

• Helping a realtor close a deal before an option period expires
• Completing multifamily roofing projects on aggressive timelines
• Communicating constantly during large projects
• Minimizing disruption for tenants and residents

One standout example was a 4,000-square roofing project Apex completed in just five days by scaling up labor and coordinating carefully.

That type of execution created stories customers wanted to share.

Customer Experience as the Competitive Advantage

The core of Apex Roofing’s growth strategy is customer experience.

Mike repeatedly emphasized that communication is what separates great roofing companies from average ones.

He believes many bad roofing reviews happen for one simple reason:

“They didn’t communicate properly.”

To prevent that, Apex created systems and accountability around communication.

Their process includes:

• Contacting new leads within minutes
• Daily check-ins from sales reps
• Job site photos sent to managers
• CRM notes documenting communication
• Homeowner walkthroughs after completion
• Continuous updates during projects

Mike also encourages his team to make personal touches part of the process.

Examples include:

• Paying for dog daycare during noisy roof installs
• Bringing treats for homeowners’ pets
• Delivering gifts after project completion
• Cleaning neighboring yards if debris blows over
• Personally checking jobs throughout the day

The goal is simple: make the homeowner feel cared for.

Why 4.9 Stars Is Better Than 5.0

One of the most interesting moments in the episode came when Mike explained why he does not want a perfect five-star rating.

In his opinion, a flawless review profile looks unrealistic.

Construction projects are messy. Problems happen. The real test is how a company responds when something goes wrong.

“I do not believe a perfect five-star company exists.”

Instead of trying to avoid every negative review, Apex focuses on resolving issues quickly and professionally.

Mike believes potential customers actually look for bad reviews to see how the contractor handled the situation.

That mindset shifts reviews from being a vanity metric into a trust-building tool.

The Importance of Managing Expectations

Another major lesson from the episode was the importance of expectation management.

Mike explained that setting expectations is only half the battle. Contractors also need to manage those expectations throughout the project.

That means:

• Explaining timelines clearly
• Communicating delays early
• Showing up consistently
• Following through on promises
• Staying visible during the project

He believes homeowners are far more understanding when contractors communicate proactively rather than disappearing.

This attention to detail becomes especially important during stressful situations or when unexpected issues arise.

Diversifying Beyond Storm Roofing

Mike also shared an important lesson for roofing companies operating in hail markets.

He believes relying entirely on storm volume can make contractors lazy.

Instead, Apex intentionally diversified into:

• Retail roofing
• Repairs
• Multifamily roofing
• Commercial projects
• Metal roofing
• Tile roofing
• Specialty roofing systems

The company even built a dedicated repair division, which became a valuable source of leads and long-term customer trust.

Interestingly, many repair calls eventually turn into full roof replacements later because homeowners remember the honesty and service they received.

Building the Right Team Takes Time

Mike was honest about the challenges of building a strong team.

Like many contractors, he hired people too early, hired the wrong people at times, and learned difficult lessons through growth.

But over time, the culture improved by reinforcing:

• Accountability
• Communication
• Customer care
• Follow-through
• Relationship building

He explained that newer team members eventually see how experienced employees succeed through referrals and relationships, which reinforces the company culture naturally.

That process takes time.

There is no shortcut to building a reputation.

Final Thoughts

Mike Cochran’s story is a reminder that roofing success is not built on flashy marketing alone. It is built through consistent experiences, strong communication, and doing the right thing repeatedly over time.

Apex Roofing did not grow because they chased every storm or focused only on sales volume. They grew because they built trust with homeowners, referral partners, and their community.

And in an industry where communication failures are often the biggest complaint, that commitment to customer experience became their biggest differentiator.

For roofing contractors looking to grow sustainably, Mike’s approach offers a powerful lesson:

Take care of people first, and the reviews, referrals, and reputation will follow.

<p>The post The Customer Experience Strategy Behind 500+ Roofing Reviews with Mike Cochran first appeared on Roofing Success Podcast.</p>